Since I used to sell vitamins for a living, I know a fair bit about them. I always considered multi-level marketing to be a joke. You get essentially the same stuff for twice the price when you buy from a Multi-level marketer. That's how it works.
There is a wholesale price which is passed along to a distributor who then sells to a salesperson who then sells to friends who usually sell to their friends. There is a markup in each transaction. They package the products so that they cannot be compared, and this is intentional, and everybody makes claims about the products.
I found that the lowest quality stuff was always in the drug stores. They carry the generic products, no frills, and they usually buy the cheapest ingredients. In time, I moved away from the basic supplements and started using Chinese herbs from a source that I knew was honest and could be trusted. I went to China with that company and visited the fields and factories which manufactured the products because in China there are lots of counterfeits. Big surprise there.
My book documents much of the knowledge that I gained when I was in China. I also used to visit farms, fields, ranches, and vitamin manufacturers to check out the facilities and to determine the origin of primary sources. When I first when to China, I tried to get the company to invest in Vitamin E because it was so pricey in the US and in China it could be manufactured cheaper, but I couldn't get them to move outside of their comfort zone, Now, almost all source materials are manufactured in China. There is one source of Vitamin C in the world, for example, outside of China, and that company is located in Scotland and it is considerably more expensive, so I used to special order from them. I did the same with protein powder. I sourced it from different manufacturers to get a better price, and we used to package it and sell it for a quarter of the retail price because I found a good quality source. If you buy the fancy package, you get a fancy price. I had my own supplements manufactured for me in a factory which I visited to discuss the sourcing of the products. My prices were always way cheaper than the retail price and at least half of the multi-level marketing price.
You know, in Ukraine, they haven't been exposed to all the scams that I was exposed to years ago in California. It seems that every possible scam came there. Breatharianism, for example. I was taking a Qi Gong class one year and in the next room there was a guy teaching the hippies how to be a breatharian. There was some sort of schedule, like eating yellow veggies, then going to something else, and eventually you stop eating. I thought it was very funny, and people paid a lot of money to attend these classes with the idea that they could learn to stop eating. Well, one night, somebody followed the teacher to a 7-Eleven where he bought a pork pie sandwich. He got exposed and vanished right afterwards.
I wonder if you remember EST. They were transformative, according to the people who went to them. My sister paid $700 for two weekend seminars, and she raved about it and how it changed her life. But she made the mistake of telling me about the first session when they lock the door and tell people that they can't leave, not even to pee. Then, the instructor told them they were all assholes for taking the seminar. When my sister tried to convince me to do this, I told her. You are an asshole if you pay somebody $700 to call you an asshole. I can get somebody to do it for free.
In Ukraine, they were suckers for The Secret. Do you remember that? Well, at Toastmasters there were several people early on who were sharing the DVD and raving about it. The problem is that I knew three of the instructors and it was a fucking scam. One guy bragged to me about it, telling me he made $500,000 in six months doing seminars. You know The Secret, don't you? You get suckers to pay you big money to tell them that there is no secret. The power of attraction is supposed to transform your life, but it does nothing. And if they really had this Secret, don't you think it is irresponsible of them not to share it with the world?
I also went a few times to mediums who voiced some Egyptian God who told people the truth about life. I also went to see the Indian gurus who sat on a pillow and dispensed the truth to all those around him, like little children who unable to make a good decision. Most of the questions that they had were weak, spineless, and silly. I thought it just needed common sense.
I class multi-level marketing of supplements in the same category. It's a high priced scam. There is nothing better about them than you can get in a health food store. I sold these supplements for thirty years and I was determined to have the best quality of everything, but eventually I turned to Chinese Medicine because it works. I have seen it work. I have made it work. On Graham's advice, I took zinc, quercitin, and Vitamin D during the Covid scam, and I didn't get Covid but I doubt that the pills made much difference. The one thing that they never talk about is that healthy people don't get sick. Some people have a strong immune system and they don't get sick. We forget that even during the worst epidemic in human history, the Black Plague, about half the people of Europe did not die. I can tell you that they didn't get mRNA vaccinations. I think the only counter measure that they had was social distancing and their own innate immune system.
Thanks, Mark, for a wonderfully broad and informed comment on the topic. With regard to immunity, you and I may have made it through Covid without the prophylactic stuff, but horse (dewormer) crap from the FDA notwithstanding there was no downside. The upside, as noted, is that I'm not taking antibiotics any more, and their negatives are well known.
>If vitamin supplements made a vast difference in health, it should be visible in the Americans of today. Is it?
In America I believe the problem is diet. Too much soda, processed high carb foods, chemical preservatives etc. You can’t fix a bad diet with vitamins so its hard to know how well vitamins work by just looking at the health of Americans.
Merry Christmas, Graham! From what I read in the news, Putin is willing to negotiate, so, hopefully, this stupid war will end soon.
About vitamins, I read Linus Pauling's "Cancer and Vitamin C" some time ago. I think it was published in the late '60s or thereabouts. Pauling was a very smart and very knowledgeable man, but, obviously, sixty some years on, he was quite wrong (even though the arguments in the book are quite persuasive). So I don't know about supplements.
My mother is an MD, retired now. She was a nurse for many years, beginning her career serving in the Army in Viet Nam taking care of soldiers from the 25th Infantry Division at Cu Chi during Tet, and then got her MD after us kids were grown and practiced as a GP. She says the best way to stay healthy is to eat your fruits and veggies, watch your calories, getting plenty of fresh air, sunshine and exercise, lay off the booze and the dope, keep busy and make yourself needed. Her three rules for a happy life are something to do, something to love and something to look forward to. I agree!
Incidentally, she had not been vaccinated against Covid. Her advice has been to wait three years to see if there are documented adverse affects and only get the vaccine if you are in an at-risk group or your doctor recommends it.
My father has not been vaccinated, either, but he is such a cynic that he figures anything the government advocates is distilled BS. He's a retired naval aviator with three wars under his belt and figures luck and the will of the head monkey in the sky (as he terms God) determine your fate and there's not much you can do about it. When your time comes, it's sayonara, and that's that.
My husband is also a naval aviator, actually at sea not all that far from where you are right now, ready to erase Russia should those fools decide to actually follow through on their nuclear threats. He's had all the vaccinations Uncle Sam requires with no ill affects.
I was vaccinated with the Johnson & Johnson vaccine when I was still in the Navy as it was required. No ill affects. I take a vitamin C 1,000 mg supplement daily as well as a multi vitamin. I haven't had a cold or flu since I don't know when. Whether that's the result of the supplements or my immune system I don't know.
I have a friend who got into multi-level marketing. Yeah, it's a scam. It relies on the naive and the foolish to function.
I guess the best thing to do is live your life, take care of yourself and not succumb to debauchery and leave the rest up to God.
May the Lord bless you and your family, Graham. Again, Merry Christmas and a very prosperous and safe new year to you and your family!
Thank you, Wanda. Yes, Putin wants to negotiate the terms under which Ukraine surrenders its land. Real negotiations will begin when he recognizes whose land it is. One thing should be clear. Nobody on any of the land wants to be Russian.
Pity that Biden isn't a Trump like person. I could see trump pickup the phone call Vlad and say get out before things get really bad. The US could cause great havoc in those oil fields should they need to. No war nonsense just a minor bit of disruption. Then the US could declare that help would arrive to improve selected business interests.
Thanks. You cite all government sources. They probably pre-date Covid, and are probably reliable. But I'm not going to take anything they say at face value for a long, long time.
For bones, you need a lot more than Calcium which by itself might be harmful. Check the K2 and D data. This is more critical for post menopause females without hormone support.
The causal relationship between vitamin D3 and Zn with Cov19 is unclear, but an inverse correlation with Cov19 has been pointed out in papers. That Fauci-controlled NIH paper, but probably not influenced by him.
However, D3 is known to cause hypercalcemia, renal failure, soft tissue calcification failure, etc., if a large amount of vitamin D intake continues.
Therefore, some doctors say not to exceed the amount written on the box for up to 2-3 weeks.
Since I used to sell vitamins for a living, I know a fair bit about them. I always considered multi-level marketing to be a joke. You get essentially the same stuff for twice the price when you buy from a Multi-level marketer. That's how it works.
There is a wholesale price which is passed along to a distributor who then sells to a salesperson who then sells to friends who usually sell to their friends. There is a markup in each transaction. They package the products so that they cannot be compared, and this is intentional, and everybody makes claims about the products.
I found that the lowest quality stuff was always in the drug stores. They carry the generic products, no frills, and they usually buy the cheapest ingredients. In time, I moved away from the basic supplements and started using Chinese herbs from a source that I knew was honest and could be trusted. I went to China with that company and visited the fields and factories which manufactured the products because in China there are lots of counterfeits. Big surprise there.
My book documents much of the knowledge that I gained when I was in China. I also used to visit farms, fields, ranches, and vitamin manufacturers to check out the facilities and to determine the origin of primary sources. When I first when to China, I tried to get the company to invest in Vitamin E because it was so pricey in the US and in China it could be manufactured cheaper, but I couldn't get them to move outside of their comfort zone, Now, almost all source materials are manufactured in China. There is one source of Vitamin C in the world, for example, outside of China, and that company is located in Scotland and it is considerably more expensive, so I used to special order from them. I did the same with protein powder. I sourced it from different manufacturers to get a better price, and we used to package it and sell it for a quarter of the retail price because I found a good quality source. If you buy the fancy package, you get a fancy price. I had my own supplements manufactured for me in a factory which I visited to discuss the sourcing of the products. My prices were always way cheaper than the retail price and at least half of the multi-level marketing price.
You know, in Ukraine, they haven't been exposed to all the scams that I was exposed to years ago in California. It seems that every possible scam came there. Breatharianism, for example. I was taking a Qi Gong class one year and in the next room there was a guy teaching the hippies how to be a breatharian. There was some sort of schedule, like eating yellow veggies, then going to something else, and eventually you stop eating. I thought it was very funny, and people paid a lot of money to attend these classes with the idea that they could learn to stop eating. Well, one night, somebody followed the teacher to a 7-Eleven where he bought a pork pie sandwich. He got exposed and vanished right afterwards.
I wonder if you remember EST. They were transformative, according to the people who went to them. My sister paid $700 for two weekend seminars, and she raved about it and how it changed her life. But she made the mistake of telling me about the first session when they lock the door and tell people that they can't leave, not even to pee. Then, the instructor told them they were all assholes for taking the seminar. When my sister tried to convince me to do this, I told her. You are an asshole if you pay somebody $700 to call you an asshole. I can get somebody to do it for free.
In Ukraine, they were suckers for The Secret. Do you remember that? Well, at Toastmasters there were several people early on who were sharing the DVD and raving about it. The problem is that I knew three of the instructors and it was a fucking scam. One guy bragged to me about it, telling me he made $500,000 in six months doing seminars. You know The Secret, don't you? You get suckers to pay you big money to tell them that there is no secret. The power of attraction is supposed to transform your life, but it does nothing. And if they really had this Secret, don't you think it is irresponsible of them not to share it with the world?
I also went a few times to mediums who voiced some Egyptian God who told people the truth about life. I also went to see the Indian gurus who sat on a pillow and dispensed the truth to all those around him, like little children who unable to make a good decision. Most of the questions that they had were weak, spineless, and silly. I thought it just needed common sense.
I class multi-level marketing of supplements in the same category. It's a high priced scam. There is nothing better about them than you can get in a health food store. I sold these supplements for thirty years and I was determined to have the best quality of everything, but eventually I turned to Chinese Medicine because it works. I have seen it work. I have made it work. On Graham's advice, I took zinc, quercitin, and Vitamin D during the Covid scam, and I didn't get Covid but I doubt that the pills made much difference. The one thing that they never talk about is that healthy people don't get sick. Some people have a strong immune system and they don't get sick. We forget that even during the worst epidemic in human history, the Black Plague, about half the people of Europe did not die. I can tell you that they didn't get mRNA vaccinations. I think the only counter measure that they had was social distancing and their own innate immune system.
Thanks, Mark, for a wonderfully broad and informed comment on the topic. With regard to immunity, you and I may have made it through Covid without the prophylactic stuff, but horse (dewormer) crap from the FDA notwithstanding there was no downside. The upside, as noted, is that I'm not taking antibiotics any more, and their negatives are well known.
Yes, you're correct. All to the good.
>If vitamin supplements made a vast difference in health, it should be visible in the Americans of today. Is it?
In America I believe the problem is diet. Too much soda, processed high carb foods, chemical preservatives etc. You can’t fix a bad diet with vitamins so its hard to know how well vitamins work by just looking at the health of Americans.
Merry Christmas, Graham! From what I read in the news, Putin is willing to negotiate, so, hopefully, this stupid war will end soon.
About vitamins, I read Linus Pauling's "Cancer and Vitamin C" some time ago. I think it was published in the late '60s or thereabouts. Pauling was a very smart and very knowledgeable man, but, obviously, sixty some years on, he was quite wrong (even though the arguments in the book are quite persuasive). So I don't know about supplements.
My mother is an MD, retired now. She was a nurse for many years, beginning her career serving in the Army in Viet Nam taking care of soldiers from the 25th Infantry Division at Cu Chi during Tet, and then got her MD after us kids were grown and practiced as a GP. She says the best way to stay healthy is to eat your fruits and veggies, watch your calories, getting plenty of fresh air, sunshine and exercise, lay off the booze and the dope, keep busy and make yourself needed. Her three rules for a happy life are something to do, something to love and something to look forward to. I agree!
Incidentally, she had not been vaccinated against Covid. Her advice has been to wait three years to see if there are documented adverse affects and only get the vaccine if you are in an at-risk group or your doctor recommends it.
My father has not been vaccinated, either, but he is such a cynic that he figures anything the government advocates is distilled BS. He's a retired naval aviator with three wars under his belt and figures luck and the will of the head monkey in the sky (as he terms God) determine your fate and there's not much you can do about it. When your time comes, it's sayonara, and that's that.
My husband is also a naval aviator, actually at sea not all that far from where you are right now, ready to erase Russia should those fools decide to actually follow through on their nuclear threats. He's had all the vaccinations Uncle Sam requires with no ill affects.
I was vaccinated with the Johnson & Johnson vaccine when I was still in the Navy as it was required. No ill affects. I take a vitamin C 1,000 mg supplement daily as well as a multi vitamin. I haven't had a cold or flu since I don't know when. Whether that's the result of the supplements or my immune system I don't know.
I have a friend who got into multi-level marketing. Yeah, it's a scam. It relies on the naive and the foolish to function.
I guess the best thing to do is live your life, take care of yourself and not succumb to debauchery and leave the rest up to God.
May the Lord bless you and your family, Graham. Again, Merry Christmas and a very prosperous and safe new year to you and your family!
Thank you, Wanda. Yes, Putin wants to negotiate the terms under which Ukraine surrenders its land. Real negotiations will begin when he recognizes whose land it is. One thing should be clear. Nobody on any of the land wants to be Russian.
Pity that Biden isn't a Trump like person. I could see trump pickup the phone call Vlad and say get out before things get really bad. The US could cause great havoc in those oil fields should they need to. No war nonsense just a minor bit of disruption. Then the US could declare that help would arrive to improve selected business interests.
Not exactly vitamins, but...
Thanks. You cite all government sources. They probably pre-date Covid, and are probably reliable. But I'm not going to take anything they say at face value for a long, long time.
For bones, you need a lot more than Calcium which by itself might be harmful. Check the K2 and D data. This is more critical for post menopause females without hormone support.
The causal relationship between vitamin D3 and Zn with Cov19 is unclear, but an inverse correlation with Cov19 has been pointed out in papers. That Fauci-controlled NIH paper, but probably not influenced by him.
However, D3 is known to cause hypercalcemia, renal failure, soft tissue calcification failure, etc., if a large amount of vitamin D intake continues.
Therefore, some doctors say not to exceed the amount written on the box for up to 2-3 weeks.
D3:: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34514483/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32252338/
Zn:: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34514483/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32837895/