Thanks for a rather detailed discussion of this "Fourth Theory". I certainly would not read it for myself and am appalled that it might form the basis of Putin's thinking. I have been influenced by Wade in his cultural groupings which then drive social arrangements suited to those cultures. I also lament the current US political tendencies of division driven by politicians intent on their own sinecures. Dugin seems as obscure as Marx in trying to arrive at a philosophical basis for governance creating a word salad to develop their thoughts.
I see myself as somewhat conservative yet can't accept much of this justification of war. Putin's war of choice seems as badly conceived as the US wars of choice in Vietnam and Iraq. In the latter cases it has led to considerable military advantage which has placed the US in the unfortunate position of world police. The US wars have been proving grounds for advanced combat organizations.
I see the book as an intellectual mousetrap, a ruse to get American - above all - and other "conservatives" hooked into supporting Dugin's notions about politics and governance. The intent seems to be to take advantage of the already-existing polarization between "right" and "left" and to bamboozle the "right" into supporting Russian imperialism, the re-creation of the Soviet Union, the Eastern Bloc, and the Comintern. The "right" has this terrible anti-intellectual tendency, at least in America, and so they are easily taken in by this nonsense, which cites concepts with which they can agree, mixes them in with referents to concepts in other languages such as German and French of which they tend to have little or no knowledge of, and in the process they forget their foundational principles as laid down by Jefferson, Burke, Montesquieu, Paine, and others of that same line. They adopt this nonsense and are suckered into supporting the system which their clear (and declared) ideological opponents support - they are turned into traitors to their own foundational beliefs and principles. And that's really the point of the thing - to sucker these people into supporting "Greater Eurasianism" as very clearly set out in Dugin's Foundations of Geopolitics, a system of governance and politics which would destroy them, and which very clearly and unmistakably sets out to do so. Unfortunately, the honest English translation of this Russian book has not been widely available - if it had been so, 25 years ago, perhaps the mice which got caught in this trap would have seen it for what it is... a very successful attempt at dezinformatsiya, something which Dugin and his buddies in the KGB/FSB seem to be quite adept at doing.
Not sure where you see the right as agreeing with the Russian justifications. I must admit to only tracking what Trump has noted and Carlson's drivel related to avoiding US entanglements that would get US troops involved. To my mind the materiel and money sent in support of Ukraine is well justified to avoid a WWIII. I am saddened that Biden slow rolled support at the start because it took away from his national plans. But given how badly conceived those plans have been, centered on the green nonsense, the diversion seems useful. His policy failures are now more than apparent as most central plans tend to be.
Stuff like this - https://amgreatness.com/2022/04/25/nazis-in-ukraine/ - which could have been copied verbatim from Matthew Ehret or Strategic Culture is still pretty common on "conservative" sites. Same case here - https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/philandering-with-ukraine/ - if the author of this piece had read Dugin's Foundations of Geopolitics in an honest English translation, I wonder if his attitude would change. A lot of people on the Traditionalist Orthodox Christian Right - that's Rod Dreher to a "T" - have been suckered by Dugin's fake pretensions to orthodoxy, they apparently don't see or know about the deep connections to the KGB and FSB that Dugin has.
I don't agree much with "nazis-in-uniform". My research suggests the US State dept took advantage of the situation in 2014 to claim involvement. I wasn't there but I recall news at the time that suggests it was organic. There is some truth in the admiration for the Germans who were in opposition to Russians that persists with some elements adopting signage used by Germans during the WWII war. My understanding is Kolomoyskyi funded several private armies like the Azovs who were involved in the Donbas largely because the Ukrainians didn't have much of an army. But I'm not there so can't know how to separate the various propaganda levels regarding source.
The article "philandering" urges caution in the US involvement which seems wise. At least they are not trotting out the Nazi stuff. But the Russians were used as a way to attack Trump that has harmed the US-Russia relationship. Ukraine support adds to that distrust and the sanctions made it even worse. While founder's advice to stay out of foreign entanglement is wise, since WWI that has been nearly impossible. So that means we need to be extra careful with our allies.
Thanks for a rather detailed discussion of this "Fourth Theory". I certainly would not read it for myself and am appalled that it might form the basis of Putin's thinking. I have been influenced by Wade in his cultural groupings which then drive social arrangements suited to those cultures. I also lament the current US political tendencies of division driven by politicians intent on their own sinecures. Dugin seems as obscure as Marx in trying to arrive at a philosophical basis for governance creating a word salad to develop their thoughts.
I see myself as somewhat conservative yet can't accept much of this justification of war. Putin's war of choice seems as badly conceived as the US wars of choice in Vietnam and Iraq. In the latter cases it has led to considerable military advantage which has placed the US in the unfortunate position of world police. The US wars have been proving grounds for advanced combat organizations.
Looking forward to your further review.
I see the book as an intellectual mousetrap, a ruse to get American - above all - and other "conservatives" hooked into supporting Dugin's notions about politics and governance. The intent seems to be to take advantage of the already-existing polarization between "right" and "left" and to bamboozle the "right" into supporting Russian imperialism, the re-creation of the Soviet Union, the Eastern Bloc, and the Comintern. The "right" has this terrible anti-intellectual tendency, at least in America, and so they are easily taken in by this nonsense, which cites concepts with which they can agree, mixes them in with referents to concepts in other languages such as German and French of which they tend to have little or no knowledge of, and in the process they forget their foundational principles as laid down by Jefferson, Burke, Montesquieu, Paine, and others of that same line. They adopt this nonsense and are suckered into supporting the system which their clear (and declared) ideological opponents support - they are turned into traitors to their own foundational beliefs and principles. And that's really the point of the thing - to sucker these people into supporting "Greater Eurasianism" as very clearly set out in Dugin's Foundations of Geopolitics, a system of governance and politics which would destroy them, and which very clearly and unmistakably sets out to do so. Unfortunately, the honest English translation of this Russian book has not been widely available - if it had been so, 25 years ago, perhaps the mice which got caught in this trap would have seen it for what it is... a very successful attempt at dezinformatsiya, something which Dugin and his buddies in the KGB/FSB seem to be quite adept at doing.
Not sure where you see the right as agreeing with the Russian justifications. I must admit to only tracking what Trump has noted and Carlson's drivel related to avoiding US entanglements that would get US troops involved. To my mind the materiel and money sent in support of Ukraine is well justified to avoid a WWIII. I am saddened that Biden slow rolled support at the start because it took away from his national plans. But given how badly conceived those plans have been, centered on the green nonsense, the diversion seems useful. His policy failures are now more than apparent as most central plans tend to be.
Stuff like this - https://amgreatness.com/2022/04/25/nazis-in-ukraine/ - which could have been copied verbatim from Matthew Ehret or Strategic Culture is still pretty common on "conservative" sites. Same case here - https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/philandering-with-ukraine/ - if the author of this piece had read Dugin's Foundations of Geopolitics in an honest English translation, I wonder if his attitude would change. A lot of people on the Traditionalist Orthodox Christian Right - that's Rod Dreher to a "T" - have been suckered by Dugin's fake pretensions to orthodoxy, they apparently don't see or know about the deep connections to the KGB and FSB that Dugin has.
I don't agree much with "nazis-in-uniform". My research suggests the US State dept took advantage of the situation in 2014 to claim involvement. I wasn't there but I recall news at the time that suggests it was organic. There is some truth in the admiration for the Germans who were in opposition to Russians that persists with some elements adopting signage used by Germans during the WWII war. My understanding is Kolomoyskyi funded several private armies like the Azovs who were involved in the Donbas largely because the Ukrainians didn't have much of an army. But I'm not there so can't know how to separate the various propaganda levels regarding source.
The article "philandering" urges caution in the US involvement which seems wise. At least they are not trotting out the Nazi stuff. But the Russians were used as a way to attack Trump that has harmed the US-Russia relationship. Ukraine support adds to that distrust and the sanctions made it even worse. While founder's advice to stay out of foreign entanglement is wise, since WWI that has been nearly impossible. So that means we need to be extra careful with our allies.
One great read