Great to hear from Pan Piaseckyj after losing touch with him when the website World News folded. Had many stimulating exchanges with him and others there, 2014-15. Also, Graham, thanks for the reference to Evolution and Ethics, by Sir Arthur Keith; I've nearly finished it and I find his analysis of Germany's evolution of a warrior culture fascinating, though I'll hold off on whether to agree with it until I reach his conclusion.
A very complex history of peoples speaking a language without a nation behind it. Thanks for your overview. Ukraine's future need not retain all of that past, but does explain much conflict over time.
Hard to take Ukrainian nationalism seriously when their first instinct is to join the EU Empire. As an Irish person, I know exactly where that leads take a look around Dublin today and compare with what the IRA were fighting for.
Like the current members of the EU, they do not fully know what they are getting into. Enough have seen the ugly streets of latter day Paris and London to have some suspicions, but for now they are attracted to the wealth.
My "they" does not include the nationalists, who tend to think more like you.
Ukrainians do not like to be coerced, and do not like the jabs. We are open minded but not pushovers. We practice toleration but don't celebrate or invite diversity. There is much of which to be skeptical.
Ukraine needs help right now to repel the Russians, from whatever quarter it comes. My private hope is that the western house of cards falls shortly as well and Ukraine can remain free of them all.
Ukrainian nationalism has survived Stalin's genocide, which was on a bigger scale than the genocide of the Jews. Ukrainian nationalism has survived generations of oblivion and erasing by the Soviets. It has survived Putin's imperial denials of the very existence of Ukraine, it has survived the onslaught of the largest army in Europe.
Joining the EU might be a mistake, although how long the EU survives in its current, corrupt form is open for speculation, but Ukrainian nationalism has earnt the right to be taken seriously.
Irish nationalism survived 700 years of English control/religious persecution and a mass genocide too. It was completely eradicated within the last 50 years especially since joining the EU. Nationalist is now a word banned from polite/political conversation in Ireland despite being the raison d'etre for the state's foundation.
You raise exactly the right question. I like to think that Kit has the right answer. But... the corrosive power of the EU has been very strong up until now. Question is how long it will last.
I'm afraid that Irish nationalism had pretty much degenerated into simple Anti-English animus rather than anything more positive. Ask pretty much any Irishman about Irish identity and it pretty much immediately goes to complaints about the English rather than anything actually about Ireland and the Irish. Which explains the headlong embrace of the EU and the current multicultural morass the Republic finds itself in. I get the impression that Ukrainian nationalism is more than simply Anti-Russian animus but is much deeper.
Irish Nationalism was built on a separate language, separate religion (Catholicism vs Protestantism) and a completely separate social existence (Anglos went to different school, universities etc). The pre independence separation was closer to that in places like India or Africa. Anti-English sentiment was only a small part and resulted from centuries of English oppression.
Irish nationalism is almost entirely anti-Englishism. That's pretty much it. You can talk about the reasons for that but it doesn't alter the facts. Irish identity is basically a lament of the 'centuries of oppression'. That's a very narrow basis to build an identity on. And that leaves Ireland vulnerable to the blandishments of the EU.
This is a pretty insulting thing to say to an actual Irish person lol My entire culture and identity isn't based on anti-English sentiment I assure you.
Great to hear from Pan Piaseckyj after losing touch with him when the website World News folded. Had many stimulating exchanges with him and others there, 2014-15. Also, Graham, thanks for the reference to Evolution and Ethics, by Sir Arthur Keith; I've nearly finished it and I find his analysis of Germany's evolution of a warrior culture fascinating, though I'll hold off on whether to agree with it until I reach his conclusion.
A very complex history of peoples speaking a language without a nation behind it. Thanks for your overview. Ukraine's future need not retain all of that past, but does explain much conflict over time.
Hard to take Ukrainian nationalism seriously when their first instinct is to join the EU Empire. As an Irish person, I know exactly where that leads take a look around Dublin today and compare with what the IRA were fighting for.
Like the current members of the EU, they do not fully know what they are getting into. Enough have seen the ugly streets of latter day Paris and London to have some suspicions, but for now they are attracted to the wealth.
My "they" does not include the nationalists, who tend to think more like you.
Ukrainians do not like to be coerced, and do not like the jabs. We are open minded but not pushovers. We practice toleration but don't celebrate or invite diversity. There is much of which to be skeptical.
Ukraine needs help right now to repel the Russians, from whatever quarter it comes. My private hope is that the western house of cards falls shortly as well and Ukraine can remain free of them all.
Ukrainian nationalism has survived Stalin's genocide, which was on a bigger scale than the genocide of the Jews. Ukrainian nationalism has survived generations of oblivion and erasing by the Soviets. It has survived Putin's imperial denials of the very existence of Ukraine, it has survived the onslaught of the largest army in Europe.
Joining the EU might be a mistake, although how long the EU survives in its current, corrupt form is open for speculation, but Ukrainian nationalism has earnt the right to be taken seriously.
Irish nationalism survived 700 years of English control/religious persecution and a mass genocide too. It was completely eradicated within the last 50 years especially since joining the EU. Nationalist is now a word banned from polite/political conversation in Ireland despite being the raison d'etre for the state's foundation.
You raise exactly the right question. I like to think that Kit has the right answer. But... the corrosive power of the EU has been very strong up until now. Question is how long it will last.
I'm afraid that Irish nationalism had pretty much degenerated into simple Anti-English animus rather than anything more positive. Ask pretty much any Irishman about Irish identity and it pretty much immediately goes to complaints about the English rather than anything actually about Ireland and the Irish. Which explains the headlong embrace of the EU and the current multicultural morass the Republic finds itself in. I get the impression that Ukrainian nationalism is more than simply Anti-Russian animus but is much deeper.
Irish Nationalism was built on a separate language, separate religion (Catholicism vs Protestantism) and a completely separate social existence (Anglos went to different school, universities etc). The pre independence separation was closer to that in places like India or Africa. Anti-English sentiment was only a small part and resulted from centuries of English oppression.
Irish nationalism is almost entirely anti-Englishism. That's pretty much it. You can talk about the reasons for that but it doesn't alter the facts. Irish identity is basically a lament of the 'centuries of oppression'. That's a very narrow basis to build an identity on. And that leaves Ireland vulnerable to the blandishments of the EU.
This is a pretty insulting thing to say to an actual Irish person lol My entire culture and identity isn't based on anti-English sentiment I assure you.