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Gary SonofWilliam's avatar

I have a Ukrainian DL story. Mine was only good for 2 years. But, on my way back from Germany last year, I sped through 3 speed traps within a 500 meter zone. Three tickets. They won't let me renew mine until I go through the whole damned thing again. It's good until the end of martial law. They wouldn't even let me trade in my German license, which was not exactly easy to get. My patience is wearing thin.

Trump has turned out to be a huge disappointment to me. One never knows what he will do or say from one day to the next. Don't hold your breath waiting for substantial help from his side.

Graham Seibert's avatar

Trump is indeed unpredictable. But he will never again be called Putin's best friend. I'm betting that he will give Ukraine what it needs to win, or at least green light Europe doing so.

With regard to the driver's license, you don't have much choice even when patience wears thin. You gotta put up with it. Alas. Meanwhile, having studied the rules of the road, I learn that I break them all the time on my bicycle. With never a consequence. There is no money to be made shaking down bicycles.

Thomas Pierce's avatar

Funny, but I know several pretty girls who got their driver's licenses without spending a dime.

Graham Seibert's avatar

They had a bit of je ne sais quoi that I seem to lack. Anyhow, the experience makes good telling.

streamfortyseven's avatar

Pragmatically speaking, it's either pay the bribe - or pay out pretty close the same amount of money and waste a lot of time and aggravation. Ukraine is crooked as a broke back snake, so is Russia, so is any ex-Soviet country. You can either pay the gatekeeper for the piece of paper, or you can jump through all of the hoops, and spend more time and money. It's not a straight game, it's like a country run by machine Democrats, or the US Congress - there's a reason that Congress-people get to be millionaires many times over, on a $140,000 salary which would barely pay for food and rent and half of a secretary - to get my "representative"'s attention, it's about $3000, in cold hard cash. Lyndon Johnson cost $30,000 in a plain manila envelope in 1965. They're all crooks, selling their vote and influence. The anarchists are right, the only cure for government is to get rid of it - "the government which governs best is that which governs least". Figure out what it costs to get the thing done, pay it, and get the job done, that's my advice.

It's nice that Trump has finally figured out that Vlad has been jerking him around and making a fool out of him.

Graham Seibert's avatar

For your amusement I have posted Ukraine's driving laws on my web site. First 15 or so are dual-language, after that just the Ukrainian. They are absurdly difficult. But I've always liked puzzles.

https://grahamseibert.com/Drivers_License/

streamfortyseven's avatar

Jesus wept. Just for fun, I did the express test on the section for pedestrian crossings (https://green-way.com.ua/en/test-pdd/express-test/121), missed one question. But if the express test were in Ukrainian, forget it. Russian is one thing, it's got lots of "borrow words" from German and French, if you know your Latin and Greek roots, and you know the Greek alphabet, it's not that tough to figure out - but Ukrainian is just insanely difficult...

Graham Seibert's avatar

I found it very odd that they give the express tests in English whereas the test itself is given only in Ukrainian. Before the war Russian was an option as well. In any case, I never bothered with the English language stuff.

About the borrow-words, we have them too. It is just that Ukraine chose to borrow different words. The Ukrainian history I'm reading introduces the concept of a фах. That would be German Fach, a specialty. Same with дах Dach. Гільдіі guilds.

Graham Seibert's avatar

It's more than a matter of money, but of course money is at the heart of it. The whole system is designed to fatten the wallets of the many driving schools.

On the other hand, the individuals I dealt with at the Kyiv DMV were helpful, decent folks. I can say the same for those I used to deal with in Maryland. Emphatically not so the District of Columbia.

Look at the bright side. Though they say about themselves that they are terrible drivers, they are actually very skillful and polite. It is the roads that could be better. We are well served not having many foreigners on our roads. Just read about who is having accidents in Western Europe.

Joel W. Hay, PhD's avatar

I was gonna say, in Latin America The only thing that matters is el dinero preferably greenbacks. And Trump is doing a good job of messing that up too.

Gold back up to its record climbing. But it’s good to see oil headed towards $50 -that will stop Russia faster than anything else.

Graham Seibert's avatar

I discretely asked about the el dinero solution to my driver's license problem. The answer was about $3,000 from a rather shaky source. I passed.

It is about time something forced me to learn Ukrainian. If Putin or anybody tries to convince you it is about the same as Russian, tell them it is absolutely not.

Anyhow, I'm reading a 7th-grade history of Ukraine. Still need to find a way to force myself to speak it. With Russian it was volunteering for a year at the All-Ukrainian Association of Pensionners. But I was single then.

Joel W. Hay, PhD's avatar

Glad to hear that Ukrainian officials are less corrupt than Mexican ones. My experiences in Russia and eastern Europe around the time of the fall of the Soviet Union was that hospital patients even had to bribe their nurses to get the bed pans changed. The doctors had white coats with huge pockets for the vzyatka that ended up there during their rounds.

Graham Seibert's avatar

Our family is a case study. Oksana grew up with socialized medicine. She still takes the kids to the polyclinic. Service is slow but no bribes. The doctors (like all over the world) tend to believe what the Americans have told them. She doesn't buy or give meds until I have checked them out via American medical reference sites.

I prefer for-profit clinics. The service is usually pretty good. However, as above, I check out every medicine they prescribe on the Internet and avoid about 80% of them.

Bottom line: both socialized and fee-for-service work when you have an honest, high-trust society. Ukraine is corrupt at the wholesale level but delightfully honest down at retail.

gary jenkins's avatar

I am learning how I don’t want a Ukrainian license and two the torcher you go through trying to get the full story is the same for me. I suppose some day, it will make a funny story for some table topic event.

Thomas Pierce's avatar

I really don't know why you insist on doing things the hard way. You could get a license very easily, without any sweat. I recall that we couldn't enroll by daughter into Kindergarten because there were problems with the paperwork. The one piece of paper that was missing was a 500 Hryvna note.

Graham Seibert's avatar

Thomas, it was your friends in Strassbourg who quoted me $3,000 US for that kind of a solution. I had my feelers out for a long time and nothing else was proposed.

The good news is that I now read Ukrainian fairly well.

Thomas Pierce's avatar

I have little faith in Trump. In fact, the whole experience with the US in this war should make the Ukrainians shun America. Look at him, saying that he's not sure he can't violate the constitution. He has to have his lawyers look into it. God, what a turd! But I can promise you that he won't win a third term. Obama will run against him and he could never beat Obama, never.

Graham Seibert's avatar

Ah, Thomas, let's simply avoid this topic. We know each other very well. My bet is that Trump ends this war and you still push the Russiagate story. Let's give it a rest.

Thomas Pierce's avatar

I don't push the Russiagate facts. I simply choose not to brush them under the carpet as others have done. I am still aware of the "favors" that Putin has done for Donnie. And sometimes I think the forgetful need to be reminded.

Graham Seibert's avatar

Try "unconvinced" and "browbeaten."

Thomas Pierce's avatar

The only way you could be "unconvinced" is by practicing Denial. There are those who simply avoid facts and believe what they believe simply because they want to believe, and there are those who remember the facts, not "alternative" facts, but the truth which is irrefutable, and by irrefutable I mean it can't be denied unless you want to close your eyes, cover your eyes with your hand, and swear that there is no oxygen in the atmosphere or that bears do not shit in the woods. We all live in the reality that we create for ourselves, I hope that you enjoy the reality that you create, even if it's a false reality.

Graham Seibert's avatar

Did I say "browbeaten?"

Thomas Pierce's avatar

No worries, mate. You've now got silence.